Episode 53: Helping Families Plan Their Future, Arabella Murphy: Propitious
Arabella Murphy is the Founder and CEO of Propitious (London) Ltd. Propitious is a consultancy that advises wealthy families and individuals worldwide on strategic matters of practical importance and mediation. It helps clients find clear and constructive solutions to their questions about succession, family business wealth, and disputes.
Episode Transcript
00:00.00
carolinesclub
This is episode 53 of how to keep your money I'm Caroline Garnham a former private client lawyer specializing in international trust and succession planning a pioneer of family governance and a psychologist I set up Caroline's club private client professionals a place where networking works. Most advisors spend 20% of their time networking and 88% say it produces a poor return on investment Caroline's club promotes a new strategic way of networking everyone in the room has clients with whom they would like to work and communicate in a fun and enjoyable way a revolutionary way to win. Business great companies recognized me as a game changer and awarded me international woman entrepreneur of the year Twenty Twenty four for my training program I'm joined remotely by Arabella Murphy founder and Ceo of Propitious London limited. Propitious is a consultancy that advises wealthy families and individuals worldwide on strategic matters of practical importance and offers mediation. It helps clients find clear and constructive solutions to their questions about succession, family business wealth and disputes. Thank you Arabella for taking the time to join me today Arabella we met in 9094 when you joined Sims and sims and became a trainee lawyer in my department I was highly impressed by your attention to detail and your compassion. However.
01:34.88
carolinesclub
Um I was overruled for taking you into our department and we lost you to Allan overary that was a big mistake. You became a partner in alllan overary in 20 in 2007 and a founding member of Morris Turner Gardner in 2009 as a solicitor you were consistently ranked in the top tiers of the major directories for your expertise in private wealth planning and dispute resolution before we get into propitious tell me a little bit about the broad range of work. You did as a solicitor arabella.
02:10.25
Arabella Murphy
Oh Caroline I was just reflecting I can't believe it's thirty years it makes me feel extremely ancient. Um, but as I've always said I've I've been incredibly lucky to work throughout my career with some of the leading lights in private land and I had loads of fun working with you and. It absolutely converted me to private client which I hadn't really thought about before as ah as a career option and I absolutely lapped it up during those few months with you and then I went on to have many years of learning by working with the the very great Claire Morris Richard Turner and Caris Gardner and we then went on to fan Morris Turner gardener together. Um, and um, throughout that time I did all the sort of bread and butter work which was absolutely brilliant and you know trusts and tax and wills. But the opportunity that arose um, was to work with. Some of the other incredibly knowledgeable partners at a and o in in other disciplines. So ah, we might be doing something to do with buying property or yachts and planes that sort of thing but also dealing with family offices and art and race resources and hotels and and and you know all all of the sort of more. Ah, exotic things and I also did quite a lot of work and not just with the litigation team but also corporate transactions and even securitization. Um I think it's a little known fact. But there's a trust at the heart of most securitizations and bond issues so we had to become specialists in.
03:40.54
Arabella Murphy
Commercial trusts as well as private Trust So all in all I had a huge range of clients and um, lots of fun doing it.
03:48.94
carolinesclub
Of course as you know, um I started out my career with Allan Overy and so I'm very very familiar with the 3 people that you were working with um I went left and you went right? So we just met in the middle which was which was great.
03:58.15
Arabella Murphy
Um, absolutely yeah.
04:03.66
carolinesclub
Um, you formed propitious London limited in 2020 because you noticed that many families with complex affairs often needed something subtly different from the solutions offered by lawyers accountants and other professionals they wanted someone who would sit with them on their side of the table. To explore their thoughts concerns and ideas and to point with them to the best professionals to to deliver their solutions tell me a little bit about how this idea took shape and how you developed it.
04:35.62
Arabella Murphy
So You you're absolutely right I think and I think this bit would would chime with with many experienced professional advisers. Um over time. What happens is you realize that clients are often asking questions which aren't just seeking legal advice or tax advice. They usually need something practical as Well. So For example, they might know that they they want a family office but not where to put it or what exactly it's going to do or what what that looks like so they have a very clear idea that they want to do something but perhaps they don't even know where to start and the risk is that. At that point a lawyer or accountant very well-meaning and very well intentioned will give them superb professional advice but the suggestions put forward arent actually quite what the client had in mind. So The idea that that came to me which became propitious was that. Sometimes clients need an independent person to help them distill their ideas work out in in practice. What they really really want then use that to ask the right questions of their advises and above all get a better understanding make the best use of the amazing advice that their advisers are going to give them. So It's not at all replacing the lawyers and accountants is working with the clients in a very different way just sitting completely on their side of of the table and lawyers say it helps too. I mean I've had lawyers say that it makes their clients better clients and because they're receiving and understanding the advice properly.
06:07.37
Arabella Murphy
Um, and this approach I've found has worked for all sorts of different projects whether it's moving house or buying or selling something family governance divorce you know all sorts of different projects. Um, and I think overall during. During my legal career. My mantra was something that that jp Morgan that the person rather than the bank had had once said and I ah paraphrase badly but that it was some something along the lines of I don't want a lawyer to tell me what I can't do I want a lawyer to tell me how to do the thing that I want to do. And that's very much still my philosophy even though I'm not the one dishing out the legal advice nowadays and I hope that's what clients get out of working with me is that feeling that that someone has helped them to get exactly what they want.
06:56.86
carolinesclub
Very often. Um I'm I'm reminded by the fact that in the medical profession. There is a Gp a general practitioner. Um, however, there isn't a general practitioner in the Legal world. Um, and so. If you choose a lawyer you will get a legal solution if you choose an accountant you will get a numbers solution if you get a banker. You'll get some other solution and sometimes the the person that you pick to give your advice is not the person. Best suited to give you the solution. And propitious. It seems to me fills that gap is that right.
07:31.19
Arabella Murphy
I Think that's exactly right I defined it in my head very slightly differently which was ah but with with very much the same outcome which is ah if you are a business with a business question then there are all sorts of consultants that you can go to I mean there, there's sort of. You know the pwc consultings and and many other brands available. Um, but there is nothing like that for wealthy families and so that was the spot that I thought needed occupying was the idea that they could come to you and you with an open mind. Um, you're not coming from the the law or from the tax or from the accountancy or any other kind of particular Discipline. You're just helping them to understand exactly what might be involved in the project that they have in mind and work out what advice they need and how to get it.
08:19.98
carolinesclub
And I think it's a gap in the market which you feel very well your interview with the financial times was published on may the tenth twenty twenty one under the title. How should parents treat wayward children by Emma Jacobs in that article you say that rather than shoehorner children into a life. The parent wants for them. The best outcome might be to meet them halfway I could not agree more but from my experience founders of wealth often have children with whom they are disappointed. These children grow up feeling a failure in later life this evolves into jealousy anger and resentment. How do you deal with these deep feelings of rejection.
09:05.21
Arabella Murphy
That's a great question I think first and foremost with genuine empathy. Um, no one wakes up in the morning thinking I'm going to have a bad relationship today and nobody sets out to have you know be on bad terms with. Anybody else whether it's their family or or anyone else and um, those sort of poor relationships or fractured relationships. They evolve um through masses of little factors like tiny misunderstandings or big ones and poor communication and repeated sort of. Slight perceived feelings of of being overlooked or being out of sorts you know or all of those sort of things and that can so easily happen in families. So I think it's important to to start from that position of of empathy. There are no bad guys in the room. Um. And it's really common for talented business leaders or very powerful. You know heads of families. Um to hope or maybe assume that their children will grow up to be exactly like them. Ah, and of course that's rarely the case and that sometimes is a bit disappointing for for that person. Um, from the children's perspective. They might look at that parent think I could never be like that I'm not like him or her and therefore to assume that that they are a disappointment. Um, but actually they they can also feel that their individual talents are being overlooked.
10:32.84
Arabella Murphy
Um, or that they can't live up to the benchmark that's being being set for them. So so when I'm lucky enough to work with families I think there are there are loads of opportunities to talk about the past which is how the wealth has been created and what their parent has has put into it during during their life in terms of sort of effort and skills.
10:52.79
Arabella Murphy
And then we also look at what the children are good at and how those skills and talents could be used. Um the past matters because the children shouldn't reject all their parents ideas or or grandparents or or whoever but the future is equally important because. Just because the head of the family has been very successful doing what they do in their way doesn't mean that the children have to be exactly the same. Um I think a very common mistake is assuming that there's only one way to be successful and that normally has 1 of 2 manifestations. The common one is is to think. My way is the only way I I I'm the only person who understands this but but another way of looking at it is to say he or she knows best that they are the guru and like I can't be like them like I can't do that and either 1 of those things is you know is a path to well. Ah. Ah, disappointment really Um I think most great fortunes and great families. Keep growing by having different ideas and different skills applied as time passes everybody brings their own skills to to the party if you like but but still honoring the legacy of those who've been before. And acknowledging the great things that they've done.
12:06.20
carolinesclub
Thank you, you qualified as a mediator in 19 with the London school of mediation your work with disharmonious families has given you an in-depth understanding of why families fall out this can erupt over wills trusts. Family businesses and former relationships tell me a little more about the work you do at propitious.
12:33.52
Arabella Murphy
Well as the solicitor I really enjoyed um, supporting our litigation team and that was in a huge variety of different kinds of wealth disputes often you know trust or wills being being the most common but but lots of different iterations of that.
12:49.84
Arabella Murphy
Over time I could see so clearly the common themes that cause families to to fall out all things to go wrong? Um, but over time I have to say that that made me passionately want to train as a mediator. Um and I still feel that in many cases if not most there are opportunities to see whether. The parties. The family members the trustees The whoever could just agree their own outcome and walk away rather than waiting for a judge to decide So The difficulty of course with litigation is that the judge doesn't always see it the way that you hope he or she will um your arguments might not come across as strongly as you want. Witnesses might not be as convincing as you hope. Ah, you know all sorts of things can can go wrong in the litigation process. Um, it's very very binary in Litigation. You either win or you lose um with Mediation. The great joy is that the outcome is anything that the parties can agree upon. Um, So for example, you could split Granny's estate in a way that you agree between you instead of arguing about whether the whole will is valid or not valid which causes it to go to one side of the family or another. Um, so I really I'm a true believer in mediation and I see its results and and see. How effective it is and it's also a really useful skill for family governance where often the artist is in Compromise Um, and sometimes when you get families together and they're talking about very complicated issues of succession or family governance. It's not about finding the perfect solution.
14:26.30
Arabella Murphy
It's about finding something that everyone is willing to try.
14:28.76
carolinesclub
And what do you do? If 1 party doesn't want to mediate because they really want to stick pins in the other one and the other one wants to to put some money on the table. How do you bring both parties to the table in.
14:43.16
Arabella Murphy
Yeah, so I think Mediation obviously is entirely voluntary people have to want to give it a go. Um, but you do very very often find that everybody comes to the mediation because and in their heart of hearts. They want something to change. Um, and. It's up to me then to help them work out what that change is going to be but then turning up to the mediation or even agreeing to Mediate is the single biggest sign that they want something to change.
15:11.21
carolinesclub
Yeah, thank you your work is not limited to families and individuals you also work for professional trustees private banks and other private wealth professionals to help them provide a rapid response to safeguard and support clients in the event of a crisis. You've been joined by Roddy Balfour who I've known for many years who has decades of experience as a professional trustee tell me more about this service and how you enticed Roddy to join you.
15:42.24
Arabella Murphy
Now. Well Roddy is fantastic and ah, and of course you do him because I think so many people do after his amazing career as ah as a trustee. Well um I think you you you probably know but he was originally a private banker and then as you say you know he he had. Decades as a trustee and I was just incredibly lucky that it was perfect timing. Um, he was thinking about heading you know towards the end of his trust trustee career and I um was chatting to him at the time and and therefore had the. Chance to invite him to to come and join me at propitious and it was something I was very keen to to do I mean Roddy in particular is amazing, but um, but but I think just the idea that there would be other consultants available at propitious. Um, who can take. A different approach you know and and horses for courses. You know, give the right style the right approach for for different clients and what Roddy can do is bring a very different tone of voice to and different experience if you like to the same source of problems. So with all his experience. He can say. You know what? I've seen this you know so many times in in my professional career and you know it rarely works out. Well if you approach it in this way. Shall we have a chat and see if we can find a better way to resolve it and I think that that's a very strong message.
17:11.90
Arabella Murphy
It's quite a good general description actually of what we do it propitious which is just trying to make things better for people try and make things work better. So whether that's helping with projects or you know resolving disharmony and difficulties by mediation or by discussions and that third strand that you identified a moment ago. Um, that's risk. And risk planning and risk management and that really arose out of a massive project I had some years ago where I was dealing with a very nice family who who found itself in ah, a genuine crisis because several family members several senior family members became unavailable at the same time. And that was a real problem for them because they were the key um office holders for for all of the family's structures and wealth. Um, so we had a bit of an emergency exercise. Um, and that process of helping them create suitable new boards. And management for companies and trusts and bank accounts and other assets and get all the family affairs back under their control. It was fascinating and and very complex and there were lots of other practical issues to think about so what I found was it gave me a very different view of how families should think about risk not as a. Theoretical exercise but is a very practical one and how trustees and others can help ah families who are having a genuine emergency.
18:30.18
carolinesclub
And presumably you can stand between the the professionals like the professional trustee and the family in order to resolve differences that they may have between them.
18:41.57
Arabella Murphy
Oh very much So and um I mean you see that particularly um, in long running trusts. There can be misunderstandings or the relationship can seem to sour a little bit or something goes a bit wrong. Um, and so that's very much and an area where. Where we get involved.
18:59.33
carolinesclub
Um, satisfied clients. Um say Arabella is Fantastic. She's got deep knowledge and great understanding. She's lovely and charming with an underrated style. She's impressive which I have to concur is True. We were also highly Commended. You were also highly commended by both chambers and Legal 500 when you were a solicitor tell me a little bit how the work at propitious differs from what you thought it would be and from being a solicitor.
19:30.80
Arabella Murphy
Those are incredibly generous words. Um I Absolutely love my time as as a lawyer and loved working with all the clients and I think when you do something you're passionate about it shows. Um and what's different now is that I'm massively enjoying. Using all of those skills in a very different way as I as I've described um, sitting with the clients and taking the time to to help them realize their project or resolve their difficulty. Um and as ah as a lawyer I think that the difference between the Two. So as a lawyer your advice needs to be. Technical as as well as Practical. Um, and now I just have all the time in the world to sit and listen to exactly what the client needs and then I use my legal knowledge and very often. My mediation skills as well to help them work through any difficulties work on the finer details. What sort of advice they need helping them get that ah making it absolutely clear and then seeing it through to to implementation sometimes I have a hand in that. So it's It's just it's the the other side of the coin and um and I love it.
20:40.33
carolinesclub
Presumably your your work spans across borders and continents and you can work presumably with people from all from worldwide. Um, where where do you find most of your clients are based Asia Europe.
20:57.14
carolinesclub
America.
20:58.22
Arabella Murphy
Well I should know you're right I mean they are from all over the world. Ah, but that was always true in my legal career. Actually I think well obviously sims and simmons and then ill no and Morris Turnergar a very international um, client bases. So um. I think what's different this time is my clients still come from all over the world. But I also deal with more yeah uk clients now. Um as the skills I have on offer are um, work with anybody whereas I think as a private client lawyer. Um, my skills were. Very largely I was accustomed to working with international families and not so much with british families and ah now that that that has changed so I have much more of a balance. But yes, yeah, clients can be from Europe Middle East Asia ah Australia everywhere.
21:38.75
carolinesclub
And the joy.
21:47.88
Arabella Murphy
Yeah.
21:48.41
carolinesclub
And the joy presumably is you can bring in the specializations as you need them whether it's tax law in the Us or or ah Cross-border succession in the Eu Ah and those difficulties. Because you can identify them and bring in such skills as you need.
22:05.24
Arabella Murphy
That's exactly right? and and I think you know clients usually have excellent existing relationships with professional advisors. But sometimes there's a bit that's missing. They don't know a lawyer in France or Switzerland and need that advice and of course actually. You know I'm as I say I'm lucky enough to have worked with some amazing people so afterve all my my years in the law I have an amazing little black book and I often know exactly who they need to talk to and can make that introduction.
22:32.39
carolinesclub
Well maybe Caroline's club can can work with you and your little black book to make your your proposition and propitious. Go further to reach the corners that other places don't don't get to um on a personal side Arabella you are a wife and mother of 2 children. Who are still in primary school. Um I know how hard it is to juggle a demanding role as the head of a team and a full time home life. What tips can you give to women who are considering embarking on a full time working commitment and a family.
23:09.13
Arabella Murphy
Wow. Um, you've been in the same position as me so you you know what? it's like um, it is a jungle isn't it I I was lucky I came to motherhood a bit later than some so I was already very established in my career. Um, but whenever you. Are embarking on Parenthood Um, in general I would say if you have a career that you love Then? of course you're going to get great pleasure from both your career and your family life but it definitely is going to be a juggle I'll use that word again deliberately but because it is and and there's no way to. To avoid that I think people talk about having it all which is not really a sort of that sounds more like a competition and um I think it actually it's much more important to find the balance. That's right for you? Um I Think for example, it was a great thing that the pandemic has ironically left us with. Feeling that it is normal occasionally to work from home. Um, because actually even one day at home from time to time just takes that little bit of pressure off without the commute Um, giving you a tiny bit more balance and maybe that feeling that you can you know, be there for the children's tea time or whatever. And thank goodness for modern technology. It wasn't always like that even in my career you know things have have moved on so much. Um, but but sometimes it's enormously useful to be able to log on after the children are in bed and do a bit more um and sometimes that's really important. But I think throughout all of it. You also need to.
24:40.32
Arabella Murphy
Remember to have a tiny bit of a you know time for yourself something that only you enjoy doing? Um, so that you're not always you know, being something for someone else and so I mean whether that's going to the gym or reading a book or going out with friends. You know that there needs to be a few minutes of doing something for you which is really important to restore a bit of perspective.
25:06.64
carolinesclub
From my point of view as ah, as ah as a mother of children. Um and having done a degree in Psychology I was extremely um, grateful to realize that I didn't need to be there to change every nappy I didn't need to be there to to wipe up every mess that they made. I could leave that to somebody else who was may I may I say with emphasis far better qualified to do those those repetitive tasks than I was um so that I was there for the good Times. Ah. Also for the bad times but they're to listen to them and use my skills to help nurture them as Well. Do you find that the same.
25:40.45
Arabella Murphy
Absolutely and I think well actually ah I'm Claire Morris I think it was who who who said you know actually as as they get older. They need you more so you feel most drawn probably to be at home when they're baby's because you're worried about missing something. Um, but actually it's.
25:49.74
carolinesclub
Absolutely.
26:00.44
Arabella Murphy
Now when my children are approaching the age when they will go into secondary school. They talk much much more about you know their homework or their worries about friends or what's going on at school and um and I think this is you know, really important I Hope that those are the times that it's. Important to to make time for.
26:22.15
carolinesclub
My children are 31 and 28 and I have never had a better relationship with 2 human beings. We love being together. We do things together and they give me advice. Very good advice. Um, and I I think it's wonderful. So you've got all that joy to come. Arabella and I hope you you you find some time to to enjoy it. Thank you for joining me on how to keep your money I admire your vision and work with propitious as the name implies. It's the start of something good and I'm sure propitious will live up to expectations. If any of our listeners would like to know more about Caroline's club where networking works please visit our website or contact us by email or phone also make sure you are registered to receive our weekly newsletter and register your interest in Caroline's club which has been referred to as a revolution. In the private plant industry Arabella thank you so much for joining me.
